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17 thoughts on “Patreon Preview: Radiant Idols”
How do radiant idols clash with other supernatural forces? For instance, how do bonded cultists interact with daelkyr influence, and how do radiant idol dreams conflict with quori dreams?
How strong can radiant idols get in-universe? Radiant idols are challenge rating 11 in both 3.5 and 5e. Kotharel in 3.5 is a 30 HD radiant idol with a special regeneration ability, but what does that mean from an in-universe perspective? Is a Kotharel-tier radiant idol supposed to be on par with a major daelkyr like Dyrrn or Belashyrra, or even a prakhutu like Mordakhesh or Sul Khatesh?
Can a radiant idol develop an aberrant dragonmark, if they have been cast down to the Material Plane, or are they still too immortal for that?
What advice would you give to a GM looking to run a storyline wherein the PCs cure one radiant idol’s corruption, then move on to developing a cure for radiant idol syndrome altogether? How could PCs, special as they are, address the issue and create a lasting, positive change for these Syranian celestials?
Thank you for your time.
I think most of these are questions that you have to answer in your own table’s campaign.
How do radiant idols clash with other supernatural forces? For instance, how do bonded cultists interact with daelkyr influence, and how do radiant idol dreams conflict with quori dreams?
There’s no absolutes for these situations. Regarding quori, the radiant idol uses the dream spell — nothing more, nothing less. An idol would have no way to recognize if a creature was being manipulated by other dream manipulators (quori or night hags, for example) and no way to prevent such interference; the poor subject would have to endure multiple, conflicting dreams. The idol can SEND a dream but they aren’t aware of what other dreams the subject might have. If it’s a story you want to tell, you could say that the quori recognize that a radiant idol is interfering with creatures they are trying to manipulate; they might even tip off a party of adventurers to deal with the radiant idol to eliminate this interference. Likewise, a radiant idol has no way to predict, identify, or stop daelkyr manipulation — and given that daelkyr influence is inherently unpredictable, there’s no way to know what would happen. A radiant cult subverted by Belashyrra might retain their blood oath to the idol while also growing new eyes, or the daelkyr influence might break the blood oath. One thing I’ve said before is that the daelkyr frighten immortals because while immortals can’t be destroyed, they can be CHANGED. So you could have a RADIANT IDOL that’s been altered by Belashyrra, if that’s the story you want to tell.
How strong can radiant idols get in-universe? Radiant idols are challenge rating 11 in both 3.5 and 5e. Kotharel in 3.5 is a 30 HD radiant idol with a special regeneration ability, but what does that mean from an in-universe perspective? Is a Kotharel-tier radiant idol supposed to be on par with a major daelkyr like Dyrrn or Belashyrra, or even a prakhutu like Mordakhesh or Sul Khatesh?
That’s the point of having advancement in 3.5; Kotharel is more powerful than a typical radiant idol, just as Dyrrn the Corruptor is more powerful than a typical daelkyr. So yes, the typical radiant idol isn’t that powerful. But you could easily use the 5E planetar (CL 16) or solar (CL 21) as foundations for more powerful idols, adding the idol traits and any additional powers you see fit (like Kotharel’s regeneration) to this foundation.
Can a radiant idol develop an aberrant dragonmark, if they have been cast down to the Material Plane, or are they still too immortal for that?
I would not have a radiant idol develop an aberrant dragonmark through any “natural” means. They are still immortals. But if it was the result of direct daelkyr mutation and it’s a story you want to tell, it could happen — but it would be entirely unprecedented and IMO it would have to be the result of someone like Dyrrn or Mordain directly and intentionally altering the idol.
What advice would you give to a GM looking to run a storyline wherein the PCs cure one radiant idol’s corruption, then move on to developing a cure for radiant idol syndrome altogether? How could PCs, special as they are, address the issue and create a lasting, positive change for these Syranian celestials?
The first point would be that it’s something the vast powers of Syrania have been unable to do throughout the course of history. So I’d stress the epic scope of the achievement. The second is that I’d consider that this is because the planes are pure concepts that don’t interact with one another — that one reason planar powers might not be able to achieve it is because it requires multiple forms of planar influence working together, something that only occurs in the material plane. I’d see energies of Irian as being a logical element, as they are about healing and rebirth; but I could also see it being the case where you need to use aspects of Xoriat. I noted above that daelkyr could change a radiant idol for the worse; maybe they could change it in ways that would make it better.
Thank you for your responses. They are very helpful.
Exploring Eberron, p. 193, says: “Many sages believe that touching Eberron’s ground makes angels vulnerable to the influence of Khyber and the overlords, while others theorize that mortal worship—the positive energy that sustains the Undying Court—is like a drug to the dominions. Whatever the cause, dominions who interact with mortals run the risk of becoming corrupted. Such immortals crave mortal adoration and often seek to dominate mortals by exercising the power of their sphere.”
These are what “many sages” believe. Are these what Syranian angels themselves believe?
Do Syranian angels try to avoid touching the ground? What counts as the ground; does a street-bridge in Sharn count?
Do Syranian angels try to avoid garnering any sort of veneration or praise from mortals?
In general, what do Syranian angels try to do in the hopes of avoiding becoming a radiant idol, aside from simply staying invisible or disguised? What does a Syranian angel in, say, Sharn or one of the Syranian zones of Riedra do?
Has House Tarkanan ever harbored a radiant idol? Would they ever?
These are what “many sages” believe. Are these what Syranian angels themselves believe?
You’re correct: These are theories mortal sages have come up to explain radiant idols. It’s up to the DM to decide the truth, which is most likely known to the angels themselves. You could pick either of these two theories and say that they are correct; you could come up with a third theory that is actually the cause of them; or you could say that even the angels themselves don’t know why it happens.
Do Syranian angels try to avoid touching the ground? Do Syranian angels try to avoid garnering any sort of veneration or praise from mortals? In general, what do Syranian angels try to do in the hopes of avoiding becoming a radiant idol, aside from simply staying invisible or disguised?
Primarily, they stay invisible and disguised. ExE states “Syranian virtues sometimes travel to the Material Plane to conduct research for their dominion, concealing their true nature through magic or invisibility, and trying to minimize their interactions with mortals.” They don’t want to be noticed, and they don’t want to casually interact with mortals. Beyond that, it depends if the DM decides there’s any truth to the “don’t touch the ground” theory, which is as mentioned A THEORY and may well just be poetic speculation. If it IS a concrete fear, Syranian angels might use magic to remain suspended a millimeter from the ground — enough not to be noticed by any but the most perceptive people.
On the other hand, I’d personally be fine with saying that it’s a myth derived from the fact that MOST Syranian angels just DON’T LIKE to walk; they are USED to constant flight and thus when they do manifest openly in the material plane (for example, when summoned by a spell) they will hover… but that those who arrive undercover will just walk around on whatever solid surface is around.
Has House Tarkanan ever harbored a radiant idol? Would they ever?
The quote at the start of the article is about interactions between a radiant idol and House Tarkanan, and it doesn’t end well. Beyond that, the question is too vague to have a definite answer. It would entirely depend on the nature of the idol and the current needs of Tarkanan. Most radiant idols are actively dangerous and potentially predatory, and it’s not like Tarkanan has any particular reason to be sympathetic to displaced immortals — I don’t see them just saying “Awww, we’re outcasts too.” If there’s a radiant idol that ISN’T predatory and has something concretely useful to offer, sure, there could be an alliance; that’s the Power Player idol I describe in the article. And I could absolutely see an idol that gets access to a Tarkanan outpost and subverts it, turning the members into its cultists. But I don’t see a general “Aww, Mom, we found this fallen angel on the street, can we keep him?” vibe with Tarkanan; again, if you look to the paragraph that opens this article they are very aware of how dangerous idols can be.
The thought occurs regarding anchor points that the idol might appear within a manifest zone, then immediately use greater teleport to go to a place that matches its domain. It might have watched a particular place and know that’s where its domain is, or simply just be able to metaphysically “smell” the greatest source of (potential) worship.
Though what answer would you give to “Why Hasn’t The Material Been Overrun By Fallen Idols”? Rarity of the event? A true way to kill them, perhaps by depriving them of being known, even if it’s not worship (thus the Harvester is impossible to kill because the Dreadhold guards have to be aware of it to keep it under guard)?
The thought occurs regarding anchor points that the idol might appear within a manifest zone, then immediately use greater teleport to go to a place that matches its domain
Certainly. Though ALL OF SHARN is in a manifest zone, so if there is a place within Sharn that is also a suitable anchor point — such as the Fallen church for Vorlintar — you could kill two angels with one stone.
Though what answer would you give to “Why Hasn’t The Material Been Overrun By Fallen Idols”? Rarity of the event?
All of the above. First, I suggest that most radiant idols might take centuries to reform after being physically destroyed — or might linger in immaterial form, at which point they’re basically like a bad haunted house. Kotharel is a special exception BECAUSE of his domain. Most idols can be at least gotten rid of for a while, which is important because THEY AREN’T THAT COMMON. It’s a BIG DEAL for Syrania to lose a dominion; I’d say it’s remarkable for it to happen even once in a millennium. Which means when they appear today there’s three ways to explain it. 1. There’s been a spike in idols in this last century, just as there’s been a spike in the appearance of aberrant dragonmarks; this could suggest that something is fundamentally wrong with reality, a path I might take if I wanted to explore Eberron suddenly having contact with the rest of the multiverse. 2. There have been a number of idols around for centuries and most people never notice them. The village of the Father of Harvests has been his anchor for centuries, but people don’t LEAVE it and it’s so far off the beaten path it’s just never become common knowledge. 3. Radiant idols are very rare. When they are destroyed it takes centuries for them to reintegrate. The new cult that’s spring up in Callestan isn’t the result of an idol that’s been just recently ejected from Syrania; it’s an idol that was ejected long ago and has only just reformed from its previous destruction. With this in mind I think I’m going to clarify in the main article that slow reforming could take MANY centuries. This also means that in researching Vorlintar you could find a reference to it in Dhakaani records; it could have been encountered in the city long before it was claimed by humanity.
Thanks, Keith this is a great article. My initial question is how other cultures deal with radiant idols, either cases like the Mror or the Zil that may view them differently or outlying cultures like the Dhakaani or even Droaam.
Radiant idols aren’t COMMON and I think it’s entirely plausible that there’s never been a radiant idol in the Mror Holds. If there has been, odds are good that it was JUST ONE — something that spawned a particular story about the bold deeds of Mroranon crushing the wingless angel, but not that has created a cultural attitude.
With the Zil, I could go in one of three very different directions. The first would be to say that the Trust would identify an idol and eliminate it. The second is to say that an idol of Knowledge or Trickery might actually find a comfortable home in Zilargo — that a particular Zil family could have a symbiotic relationship with a hidden idol, providing it the adoration it craves in exchange for its knowledge or wisdom. Again, I see most idols as having a maximum effective range; they aren’t TRYING to conquer the world, and a radiant cult could happily thrive in a particular village for centuries without ever being known to the outside world. So there could easily be a Zil family who has worked out a decent arrangement with “Grandfather”… as long as you don’t reveal the secrets, he won’t kill you through your blood oath, and everyone’s happy! The final option is to combine the two: the Trust is aware of radiant idols and THE TRUST has absorbed idols of either Knowledge or Order and made them part of their whole system. Are adventurers about to interrogate a Trust agent with amazingly important secrets? Too bad, Oversight just activated his blood oath and killed him.
The Dhakaani have absolutely dealt with radiant idols, because Sharn is a nexus of idols and Sharn began as a Dhakaani city. Part of my point is that defeated idols may take centuries to reform… and have reformed and been destroyed multiple times throughout the history of the city. So there could be Dhakaani tales of Vorlintar or the Giver of Strength, and their appearances in the present day are just their latest of many incarnations.
So, might a power of Nature end up in the Lhazaar Principalities? I kind of like the one of Drake Turtle hunting being banished there.
Sure! First of all, the broad idea is that they can be dumped anywhere there’s a Syranian manifest zone. Sharn is a popular spot, but a Lhazaar idol wouldn’t have HAD to have come all the way from Sharn.
What does it mean that a radiant idol, despite being a fallen angel, is still treated as a celestial in terms of creature type interactions? Would anything cause a radiant idol to fully change to a fiend?
This is another 5E choice that I disagree with. In the 3.5 design, the radiant idol was a native outsider. “Outsider” meaning immortal spirit, “native” because it’s now bound to the material plane and spells like dismissal won’t send it back to Syrania. Outsiders are incarnate ideas. A celestial is a good-aligned outsider; a fiend is an evil-aligned outsider. In my campaign, you can’t be an evil celestial; celestial MEANS “good-aligned outsider.” So as long as a radiant idol is evil, it should be treated as a fiend. I’ll add that into the changes I would make.
Who or what does the “casting out” that makes a celestial a radiant idol? Is there some kind of ruling or judiciary body in Syrania responsible for this?
If I really wanted to have my radiant idol come from Shavarath (to tie it to other Shavaran elements of the campaign), would it be reasonable to just make it a War domain idol? Is there anything inherently Syranian about idols as they are that would need to change?
Who or what does the “casting out” that makes a celestial a radiant idol? Is there some kind of ruling or judiciary body in Syrania responsible for this?
According to Exploring Eberron, the Thrones of Syrania would call on Daanvi. The angel Hazariel would then perform the severing ritual.
If I really wanted to have my radiant idol come from Shavarath (to tie it to other Shavaran elements of the campaign), would it be reasonable to just make it a War domain idol? Is there anything inherently Syranian about idols as they are that would need to change?
There’s two primary reasons radiant idols as presented are Syranian. The first is that Sharn is in a powerful Syranian manifest zone. The second is that Syranian angels are by their nature more isolated and contemplative, compared to Shavaran angels who are usually ACTIVELY FIGHTING and leading armies. It’s not a particular change for Volintar to sit in Fallen and contemplate the nature of lost hope… or for the Giver of Strength to be content with the more abstract war of Cornerstone competition rather than getting onto an actual battlefield. But IN PRINCIPLE there’s no reason you couldn’t use the model of a Radiant Idol for a fallen Shavaran or Daanvi angel.
What happens if, for whatever reason, Hazariel cannot or will not perform the severing? What happens to a non-exiled radiant idol?
I love this! As someone starting an erotic Sharn campaign I needed a suitable villain and your bacchanalian suggestions hit the mark. What mindset might a radiant idol have? Would they perceive themselves as victims of Syranian injustice? Or might they have actually wanted exile to feed their need for mortal adoration?
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How do radiant idols clash with other supernatural forces? For instance, how do bonded cultists interact with daelkyr influence, and how do radiant idol dreams conflict with quori dreams?
How strong can radiant idols get in-universe? Radiant idols are challenge rating 11 in both 3.5 and 5e. Kotharel in 3.5 is a 30 HD radiant idol with a special regeneration ability, but what does that mean from an in-universe perspective? Is a Kotharel-tier radiant idol supposed to be on par with a major daelkyr like Dyrrn or Belashyrra, or even a prakhutu like Mordakhesh or Sul Khatesh?
Can a radiant idol develop an aberrant dragonmark, if they have been cast down to the Material Plane, or are they still too immortal for that?
What advice would you give to a GM looking to run a storyline wherein the PCs cure one radiant idol’s corruption, then move on to developing a cure for radiant idol syndrome altogether? How could PCs, special as they are, address the issue and create a lasting, positive change for these Syranian celestials?
Thank you for your time.
I think most of these are questions that you have to answer in your own table’s campaign.
How do radiant idols clash with other supernatural forces? For instance, how do bonded cultists interact with daelkyr influence, and how do radiant idol dreams conflict with quori dreams?
There’s no absolutes for these situations. Regarding quori, the radiant idol uses the dream spell — nothing more, nothing less. An idol would have no way to recognize if a creature was being manipulated by other dream manipulators (quori or night hags, for example) and no way to prevent such interference; the poor subject would have to endure multiple, conflicting dreams. The idol can SEND a dream but they aren’t aware of what other dreams the subject might have. If it’s a story you want to tell, you could say that the quori recognize that a radiant idol is interfering with creatures they are trying to manipulate; they might even tip off a party of adventurers to deal with the radiant idol to eliminate this interference. Likewise, a radiant idol has no way to predict, identify, or stop daelkyr manipulation — and given that daelkyr influence is inherently unpredictable, there’s no way to know what would happen. A radiant cult subverted by Belashyrra might retain their blood oath to the idol while also growing new eyes, or the daelkyr influence might break the blood oath. One thing I’ve said before is that the daelkyr frighten immortals because while immortals can’t be destroyed, they can be CHANGED. So you could have a RADIANT IDOL that’s been altered by Belashyrra, if that’s the story you want to tell.
How strong can radiant idols get in-universe? Radiant idols are challenge rating 11 in both 3.5 and 5e. Kotharel in 3.5 is a 30 HD radiant idol with a special regeneration ability, but what does that mean from an in-universe perspective? Is a Kotharel-tier radiant idol supposed to be on par with a major daelkyr like Dyrrn or Belashyrra, or even a prakhutu like Mordakhesh or Sul Khatesh?
That’s the point of having advancement in 3.5; Kotharel is more powerful than a typical radiant idol, just as Dyrrn the Corruptor is more powerful than a typical daelkyr. So yes, the typical radiant idol isn’t that powerful. But you could easily use the 5E planetar (CL 16) or solar (CL 21) as foundations for more powerful idols, adding the idol traits and any additional powers you see fit (like Kotharel’s regeneration) to this foundation.
Can a radiant idol develop an aberrant dragonmark, if they have been cast down to the Material Plane, or are they still too immortal for that?
I would not have a radiant idol develop an aberrant dragonmark through any “natural” means. They are still immortals. But if it was the result of direct daelkyr mutation and it’s a story you want to tell, it could happen — but it would be entirely unprecedented and IMO it would have to be the result of someone like Dyrrn or Mordain directly and intentionally altering the idol.
What advice would you give to a GM looking to run a storyline wherein the PCs cure one radiant idol’s corruption, then move on to developing a cure for radiant idol syndrome altogether? How could PCs, special as they are, address the issue and create a lasting, positive change for these Syranian celestials?
The first point would be that it’s something the vast powers of Syrania have been unable to do throughout the course of history. So I’d stress the epic scope of the achievement. The second is that I’d consider that this is because the planes are pure concepts that don’t interact with one another — that one reason planar powers might not be able to achieve it is because it requires multiple forms of planar influence working together, something that only occurs in the material plane. I’d see energies of Irian as being a logical element, as they are about healing and rebirth; but I could also see it being the case where you need to use aspects of Xoriat. I noted above that daelkyr could change a radiant idol for the worse; maybe they could change it in ways that would make it better.
Thank you for your responses. They are very helpful.
Exploring Eberron, p. 193, says: “Many sages believe that touching Eberron’s ground makes angels vulnerable to the influence of Khyber and the overlords, while others theorize that mortal worship—the positive energy that sustains the Undying Court—is like a drug to the dominions. Whatever the cause, dominions who interact with mortals run the risk of becoming corrupted. Such immortals crave mortal adoration and often seek to dominate mortals by exercising the power of their sphere.”
These are what “many sages” believe. Are these what Syranian angels themselves believe?
Do Syranian angels try to avoid touching the ground? What counts as the ground; does a street-bridge in Sharn count?
Do Syranian angels try to avoid garnering any sort of veneration or praise from mortals?
In general, what do Syranian angels try to do in the hopes of avoiding becoming a radiant idol, aside from simply staying invisible or disguised? What does a Syranian angel in, say, Sharn or one of the Syranian zones of Riedra do?
Has House Tarkanan ever harbored a radiant idol? Would they ever?
These are what “many sages” believe. Are these what Syranian angels themselves believe?
You’re correct: These are theories mortal sages have come up to explain radiant idols. It’s up to the DM to decide the truth, which is most likely known to the angels themselves. You could pick either of these two theories and say that they are correct; you could come up with a third theory that is actually the cause of them; or you could say that even the angels themselves don’t know why it happens.
Do Syranian angels try to avoid touching the ground? Do Syranian angels try to avoid garnering any sort of veneration or praise from mortals? In general, what do Syranian angels try to do in the hopes of avoiding becoming a radiant idol, aside from simply staying invisible or disguised?
Primarily, they stay invisible and disguised. ExE states “Syranian virtues sometimes travel to the Material Plane to conduct research for their dominion, concealing their true nature through magic or invisibility, and trying to minimize their interactions with mortals.” They don’t want to be noticed, and they don’t want to casually interact with mortals. Beyond that, it depends if the DM decides there’s any truth to the “don’t touch the ground” theory, which is as mentioned A THEORY and may well just be poetic speculation. If it IS a concrete fear, Syranian angels might use magic to remain suspended a millimeter from the ground — enough not to be noticed by any but the most perceptive people.
On the other hand, I’d personally be fine with saying that it’s a myth derived from the fact that MOST Syranian angels just DON’T LIKE to walk; they are USED to constant flight and thus when they do manifest openly in the material plane (for example, when summoned by a spell) they will hover… but that those who arrive undercover will just walk around on whatever solid surface is around.
Has House Tarkanan ever harbored a radiant idol? Would they ever?
The quote at the start of the article is about interactions between a radiant idol and House Tarkanan, and it doesn’t end well. Beyond that, the question is too vague to have a definite answer. It would entirely depend on the nature of the idol and the current needs of Tarkanan. Most radiant idols are actively dangerous and potentially predatory, and it’s not like Tarkanan has any particular reason to be sympathetic to displaced immortals — I don’t see them just saying “Awww, we’re outcasts too.” If there’s a radiant idol that ISN’T predatory and has something concretely useful to offer, sure, there could be an alliance; that’s the Power Player idol I describe in the article. And I could absolutely see an idol that gets access to a Tarkanan outpost and subverts it, turning the members into its cultists. But I don’t see a general “Aww, Mom, we found this fallen angel on the street, can we keep him?” vibe with Tarkanan; again, if you look to the paragraph that opens this article they are very aware of how dangerous idols can be.
The thought occurs regarding anchor points that the idol might appear within a manifest zone, then immediately use greater teleport to go to a place that matches its domain. It might have watched a particular place and know that’s where its domain is, or simply just be able to metaphysically “smell” the greatest source of (potential) worship.
Though what answer would you give to “Why Hasn’t The Material Been Overrun By Fallen Idols”? Rarity of the event? A true way to kill them, perhaps by depriving them of being known, even if it’s not worship (thus the Harvester is impossible to kill because the Dreadhold guards have to be aware of it to keep it under guard)?
The thought occurs regarding anchor points that the idol might appear within a manifest zone, then immediately use greater teleport to go to a place that matches its domain
Certainly. Though ALL OF SHARN is in a manifest zone, so if there is a place within Sharn that is also a suitable anchor point — such as the Fallen church for Vorlintar — you could kill two angels with one stone.
Though what answer would you give to “Why Hasn’t The Material Been Overrun By Fallen Idols”? Rarity of the event?
All of the above. First, I suggest that most radiant idols might take centuries to reform after being physically destroyed — or might linger in immaterial form, at which point they’re basically like a bad haunted house. Kotharel is a special exception BECAUSE of his domain. Most idols can be at least gotten rid of for a while, which is important because THEY AREN’T THAT COMMON. It’s a BIG DEAL for Syrania to lose a dominion; I’d say it’s remarkable for it to happen even once in a millennium. Which means when they appear today there’s three ways to explain it. 1. There’s been a spike in idols in this last century, just as there’s been a spike in the appearance of aberrant dragonmarks; this could suggest that something is fundamentally wrong with reality, a path I might take if I wanted to explore Eberron suddenly having contact with the rest of the multiverse. 2. There have been a number of idols around for centuries and most people never notice them. The village of the Father of Harvests has been his anchor for centuries, but people don’t LEAVE it and it’s so far off the beaten path it’s just never become common knowledge. 3. Radiant idols are very rare. When they are destroyed it takes centuries for them to reintegrate. The new cult that’s spring up in Callestan isn’t the result of an idol that’s been just recently ejected from Syrania; it’s an idol that was ejected long ago and has only just reformed from its previous destruction. With this in mind I think I’m going to clarify in the main article that slow reforming could take MANY centuries. This also means that in researching Vorlintar you could find a reference to it in Dhakaani records; it could have been encountered in the city long before it was claimed by humanity.
Thanks, Keith this is a great article. My initial question is how other cultures deal with radiant idols, either cases like the Mror or the Zil that may view them differently or outlying cultures like the Dhakaani or even Droaam.
Radiant idols aren’t COMMON and I think it’s entirely plausible that there’s never been a radiant idol in the Mror Holds. If there has been, odds are good that it was JUST ONE — something that spawned a particular story about the bold deeds of Mroranon crushing the wingless angel, but not that has created a cultural attitude.
With the Zil, I could go in one of three very different directions. The first would be to say that the Trust would identify an idol and eliminate it. The second is to say that an idol of Knowledge or Trickery might actually find a comfortable home in Zilargo — that a particular Zil family could have a symbiotic relationship with a hidden idol, providing it the adoration it craves in exchange for its knowledge or wisdom. Again, I see most idols as having a maximum effective range; they aren’t TRYING to conquer the world, and a radiant cult could happily thrive in a particular village for centuries without ever being known to the outside world. So there could easily be a Zil family who has worked out a decent arrangement with “Grandfather”… as long as you don’t reveal the secrets, he won’t kill you through your blood oath, and everyone’s happy! The final option is to combine the two: the Trust is aware of radiant idols and THE TRUST has absorbed idols of either Knowledge or Order and made them part of their whole system. Are adventurers about to interrogate a Trust agent with amazingly important secrets? Too bad, Oversight just activated his blood oath and killed him.
The Dhakaani have absolutely dealt with radiant idols, because Sharn is a nexus of idols and Sharn began as a Dhakaani city. Part of my point is that defeated idols may take centuries to reform… and have reformed and been destroyed multiple times throughout the history of the city. So there could be Dhakaani tales of Vorlintar or the Giver of Strength, and their appearances in the present day are just their latest of many incarnations.
So, might a power of Nature end up in the Lhazaar Principalities? I kind of like the one of Drake Turtle hunting being banished there.
Sure! First of all, the broad idea is that they can be dumped anywhere there’s a Syranian manifest zone. Sharn is a popular spot, but a Lhazaar idol wouldn’t have HAD to have come all the way from Sharn.
What does it mean that a radiant idol, despite being a fallen angel, is still treated as a celestial in terms of creature type interactions? Would anything cause a radiant idol to fully change to a fiend?
This is another 5E choice that I disagree with. In the 3.5 design, the radiant idol was a native outsider. “Outsider” meaning immortal spirit, “native” because it’s now bound to the material plane and spells like dismissal won’t send it back to Syrania. Outsiders are incarnate ideas. A celestial is a good-aligned outsider; a fiend is an evil-aligned outsider. In my campaign, you can’t be an evil celestial; celestial MEANS “good-aligned outsider.” So as long as a radiant idol is evil, it should be treated as a fiend. I’ll add that into the changes I would make.
Who or what does the “casting out” that makes a celestial a radiant idol? Is there some kind of ruling or judiciary body in Syrania responsible for this?
If I really wanted to have my radiant idol come from Shavarath (to tie it to other Shavaran elements of the campaign), would it be reasonable to just make it a War domain idol? Is there anything inherently Syranian about idols as they are that would need to change?
Who or what does the “casting out” that makes a celestial a radiant idol? Is there some kind of ruling or judiciary body in Syrania responsible for this?
According to Exploring Eberron, the Thrones of Syrania would call on Daanvi. The angel Hazariel would then perform the severing ritual.
If I really wanted to have my radiant idol come from Shavarath (to tie it to other Shavaran elements of the campaign), would it be reasonable to just make it a War domain idol? Is there anything inherently Syranian about idols as they are that would need to change?
There’s two primary reasons radiant idols as presented are Syranian. The first is that Sharn is in a powerful Syranian manifest zone. The second is that Syranian angels are by their nature more isolated and contemplative, compared to Shavaran angels who are usually ACTIVELY FIGHTING and leading armies. It’s not a particular change for Volintar to sit in Fallen and contemplate the nature of lost hope… or for the Giver of Strength to be content with the more abstract war of Cornerstone competition rather than getting onto an actual battlefield. But IN PRINCIPLE there’s no reason you couldn’t use the model of a Radiant Idol for a fallen Shavaran or Daanvi angel.
What happens if, for whatever reason, Hazariel cannot or will not perform the severing? What happens to a non-exiled radiant idol?
I love this! As someone starting an erotic Sharn campaign I needed a suitable villain and your bacchanalian suggestions hit the mark. What mindset might a radiant idol have? Would they perceive themselves as victims of Syranian injustice? Or might they have actually wanted exile to feed their need for mortal adoration?