I was rushing to get this posted before a meeting, and forgot to address Gatherhold. I’ve added a “But What About…” section, and added a short section on sites.
If the Talenta Plains can produce native elementals, native fey, and similar native entities, which then get categorized under the banner of “primal spirits” to fit the mold of D&D 4e’s primal classes and certain interpretations of D&D 5e’s druids and rangers, can other places with Lamannian and Thelanian manifest zones produce “primal spirits” of their own?
Does that make the Daughters of Sora Kell “primal spirits,” native fey who were produced within a Thelanian manifest zone? If so, does that make the Daughters of Sora Kell valid patrons and power sources for primal magicians, such as druids?
There’s no mechanical descriptor that defines a particular fey creature as a “primal spirit.” It’s entirely a question of their story. Mechanically, there’s no distinction between a dryad—a spirit who tells a story of being tied to a tree and of the magic to be found in nature—and Old Man Cord, a hag who tells the story of a vicious murderer. Maskweaver or Greensinger druids have a particular tie to fey whose stories resonate with nature and often work with them, but they aren’t going to have a special bond with Old Man Cord. The Daughters of Sora Kell, in this case, are Old Man Cord. They are drawing on the ambient energies of Thelanis that suffuse the material plain; that’s part of what it means to be native fey. But their stories aren’t tied to being “spirits of nature”. None of the Daughters have druidic abilities or any ability to grant traditional primal druidic powers.
Could one of the Daughter be a patron for a druid? Maybe, if you can build a story around it; I could see a Moon Druid who presents themselves less as a traditional “primal magician” and more as a student of combat shapeshifting taught by Sora Maenya. But the whole point of that is that they WOULDN’T be a traditional primal druid; storywise, they’d be more like an archfey warlock, it’s just they they’d have the mechanical abilities of a Moon druid.
This ties to the fact that in 5E the Arcane/Primal descriptor is purely cosmetic. What I say at the end of this article is that Talentan spirit-workers could have the abilities of druids, rangers, clerics, bards, warlocks, or even artificers—but the point is that for a Talentan character, all of those classes would be fueled by interaction with spirits. A Talentan artificer would craft magic items by binding minor spirits to them. Even though mechanically they are identical to a Cannith artificer, the STORY is entirely different; they are a primal artificer.
This ties further to the idea that we’ve always said (even back in 3E) that the Greensingers include warlocks and bards as well as druids and rangers. Because their tradition blends magic of nature and magic of the fey. That doesn’t make the fey innately primal; it’s that the Greensingers are engaging with them through a primal lens, while an Aundairian warlock would do so through an arcane lens.
But to concretely answer the question, I’ve suggested that the Daughters of Sora Kell are native archfey; but I wouldn’t call them primal spirits.
Interesting. So some native elementals and native fey would be considered “primal spirits,” while others would not be, depending on how “nature-y” they present themselves as.
And, by extension, would “primal ancestor spirits” be Dolurrhi ghosts (or other Dolurrhi incorporeal undead) who present themselves with an “ancestor-y” or “nature-y” vibe?
What’s the intent behind the question? “Primal ancestor spirit” isn’t a term you’ve defined and you’re not making clear what you want out of the answer. Do you want to know if undead can be viable Druidic and warlock patrons?
Well, it is interesting, but I do not like the cursed land idea very much I already downplay the curse on Xen’drik. I mean I always thought that the reason Galifar did not settle the Plains was because he respected the tribes and wanted to leave them free to live in the lifestyles they prefer. I prefer to think the Talenta Halflings live this way because they choose it not because the land compels them to.
In real life, fire ecology is a super important part of the types of grasslands and savannahs the Plains harken to. How would you incorporate that real life phenomena with the supernatural influences described in this article?
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Thank you, Keith. How does Gatherhold endure the creeping advances of haunted settlements?
I was rushing to get this posted before a meeting, and forgot to address Gatherhold. I’ve added a “But What About…” section, and added a short section on sites.
This is what I was wondering as I read the article. What are the implications for Gatherhold?
NVM, I see you addressed it while I was reading!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha yes to all of this!
If the Talenta Plains can produce native elementals, native fey, and similar native entities, which then get categorized under the banner of “primal spirits” to fit the mold of D&D 4e’s primal classes and certain interpretations of D&D 5e’s druids and rangers, can other places with Lamannian and Thelanian manifest zones produce “primal spirits” of their own?
Can other places with Lamannian and Thelanian manifest zones produce “primal spirits” of their own?
Absolutely. This is the primary origin of “native fey”, which can be found across Eberron.
Does that make the Daughters of Sora Kell “primal spirits,” native fey who were produced within a Thelanian manifest zone? If so, does that make the Daughters of Sora Kell valid patrons and power sources for primal magicians, such as druids?
There’s no mechanical descriptor that defines a particular fey creature as a “primal spirit.” It’s entirely a question of their story. Mechanically, there’s no distinction between a dryad—a spirit who tells a story of being tied to a tree and of the magic to be found in nature—and Old Man Cord, a hag who tells the story of a vicious murderer. Maskweaver or Greensinger druids have a particular tie to fey whose stories resonate with nature and often work with them, but they aren’t going to have a special bond with Old Man Cord. The Daughters of Sora Kell, in this case, are Old Man Cord. They are drawing on the ambient energies of Thelanis that suffuse the material plain; that’s part of what it means to be native fey. But their stories aren’t tied to being “spirits of nature”. None of the Daughters have druidic abilities or any ability to grant traditional primal druidic powers.
Could one of the Daughter be a patron for a druid? Maybe, if you can build a story around it; I could see a Moon Druid who presents themselves less as a traditional “primal magician” and more as a student of combat shapeshifting taught by Sora Maenya. But the whole point of that is that they WOULDN’T be a traditional primal druid; storywise, they’d be more like an archfey warlock, it’s just they they’d have the mechanical abilities of a Moon druid.
This ties to the fact that in 5E the Arcane/Primal descriptor is purely cosmetic. What I say at the end of this article is that Talentan spirit-workers could have the abilities of druids, rangers, clerics, bards, warlocks, or even artificers—but the point is that for a Talentan character, all of those classes would be fueled by interaction with spirits. A Talentan artificer would craft magic items by binding minor spirits to them. Even though mechanically they are identical to a Cannith artificer, the STORY is entirely different; they are a primal artificer.
This ties further to the idea that we’ve always said (even back in 3E) that the Greensingers include warlocks and bards as well as druids and rangers. Because their tradition blends magic of nature and magic of the fey. That doesn’t make the fey innately primal; it’s that the Greensingers are engaging with them through a primal lens, while an Aundairian warlock would do so through an arcane lens.
But to concretely answer the question, I’ve suggested that the Daughters of Sora Kell are native archfey; but I wouldn’t call them primal spirits.
Interesting. So some native elementals and native fey would be considered “primal spirits,” while others would not be, depending on how “nature-y” they present themselves as.
And, by extension, would “primal ancestor spirits” be Dolurrhi ghosts (or other Dolurrhi incorporeal undead) who present themselves with an “ancestor-y” or “nature-y” vibe?
What’s the intent behind the question? “Primal ancestor spirit” isn’t a term you’ve defined and you’re not making clear what you want out of the answer. Do you want to know if undead can be viable Druidic and warlock patrons?
Well, it is interesting, but I do not like the cursed land idea very much I already downplay the curse on Xen’drik. I mean I always thought that the reason Galifar did not settle the Plains was because he respected the tribes and wanted to leave them free to live in the lifestyles they prefer. I prefer to think the Talenta Halflings live this way because they choose it not because the land compels them to.
In real life, fire ecology is a super important part of the types of grasslands and savannahs the Plains harken to. How would you incorporate that real life phenomena with the supernatural influences described in this article?